Advised Podcast Ep 016: Should You Own Stocks? | with Hamilton Brandenburg

The challenges of owning individual stocks, and how we invest for our clients. Whether you're a DIY investor, or a client of a traditional firm, this episode is a MUST listen.

Check out more from Hamilton: https://brandenburgfs.com/

Rick Luchini (00:00):

So I've got these people that are like, I say, why do you hold this? Well, three years ago, so the guy that told you on TV to buy that he's liquid by Friday, he sells everything by Friday, all he's trying to do is make a quarter of a percent on $20 million. You've been holding it for four years.

Intro (00:17):

You are listening to Advised with Rick Luchini.

Rick Luchini (00:20):

Stock or not. That's the question today. I got my buddy Hamilton Brandenburg here. Should we be owning individual stocks? If so, how and when? If not, what's the alternative? Hamilton, tell me. Yeah, tell me what this comes up a lot. I mean, it just comes up a lot. Should I be owning individual stocks? Should I only be owning individual stocks? Should I mix them in with my other things? There's a time and place for both. Tell us how you treat it with your clients and what those conversations look like.

Hamilton Brandenburg (00:55):

Sure, and I want to distinguish that question too. I think when you hear it, you can hear two different things. The one question is, should I own any stocks at all in my portfolio? And there's lots of different ways to own them. Sometimes you could own it in a big fund that has a lot of stuff where you don't really know what it is. But what you're asking is, should part of my investments be to buy shares of Amazon or shares of Apple? Should I be doing that? And if so, what's my process around how I do that? So I think that's going to be fun to talk about because I've actually changed my opinion on that throughout my career. I started off earlier on doing a lot of individual stocks with clients, and I've actually kind of gotten away from that over the years, and I've found other ways for us to own good companies that maybe give us some additional benefits versus just buying the shares outright, if that makes sense. Does so, yes. Does going to fun to tackle

Rick Luchini (01:53):

This. It's does got to be fun to tackle this. Why don't we dig into that a little bit and just start right there. Why have you changed your perception on that and how you do things now versus the way you were doing it before?

Hamilton Brandenburg (02:05):

So, so many reasons, but I'm going to tell you a story about, I was at a networking event when I was early in my career. We were all going to networking things and it's like one of those, every person at the table is from a different industry kind of thing. So one of the people there and a few of the people there were my clients and one of them was like, Hey Hamilton. So I have a question. When you buy an individual stock, how do you know when it's the right time to sell it?

Rick Luchini (02:37):

Good question.

Hamilton Brandenburg (02:38):

Great. Really good question. I was like, well, we use the process and it's a combination of the Morningstar this and it was bullshit. Of all the analyst that are tracking it, what's their target price? And the truth of the matter is, I think over the next few months it started to set in with me that I was like, wait minute. I don't really have a process for this. If I'm telling somebody I should be picking stocks for them, do I have a process around why and when you sell? And if you don't, how do you consistently create repeatable success? I think you can't. So yeah, I think the big thing for me of starting to ask the question of should I be as a financial advisor picking stocks for clients to try to beat the market, started off trying to do that and having some success early on and came to the conclusion that it was really hard to have a repeatable process by which you could do that. What about you? Where have you fallen on that question over time? Well,

Rick Luchini (03:44):

I don't have before for a short period of time. I went through that phase and I think part of that was me proving my value maybe. And I think I wanted to be that. I wanted to be perceived that at that time when I was younger, look how cool and smart I am. It just doesn't work. I mean, we could spend all day saying why, but to your point, there's not a great way to have a repeatable process that actually takes into account all the things that need to be reviewed and established on determining when to buy and when to sell. And that gets proven out at people and institutions that are much bigger, stronger, and smarter than you. And I,

Hamilton Brandenburg (04:49):

That's actually a really good point.

Rick Luchini (04:51):

It failed to beat the market time and time again. And so who am I? I think it was just a pride thing. At some point you get to this place in your life or your career. It's funny, we were just talking about golf offline. It honestly is the same exact thing. You get to this point where you're like, no, no, the right way is this way. Here's a bunch of evidence. And I don't care how that perception is. It's the truth.

Hamilton Brandenburg (05:19):

Well, I think you've raised a really good point. So when a person wants to own a lot of individual stocks and they're looking and following the charts and stuff like that, and the context of especially the kinds of clients here you and I are working with, which is retirees, a lot of times what they're really wanting to accomplish is how can I make sure that I get the best return possible so that I can spend the most money possible in retirement? And that's a really valid feeling to be, you want to be involved and think about everything else in your life. You want to be involved in things and have your hands on them to make sure that you have a good outcome. And I empathize with that. But to your point now, we have all this mountains of data on what has actually come of people trading stocks and picking individual stocks to try to beat the market.

(06:08):

And what you see is that a handful of people get lucky for a year or two, but the longer you try it, the worst you do to the point where you end up spending so much time trying to beat the market by picking this company versus that company and timing it and getting in and out, that you're actually just kind of spinning your wheels, but you're not really consistently getting ahead over time. So I think, like I said, a lot of people want to do better with their portfolio and that's why they're doing that. But the counterintuitive thing is like you're actually not doing better. Generally speaking, you're typically doing worse over time. The worst thing that could happen is you get lucky the first two or three times you do it, then you're going to start to believe your own stuff. And then, yeah,

Rick Luchini (06:52):

I don't want this to turn into an active versus passive debate because I do want to have that on its own specific episode and dedicate time to it. But to that point, the next obvious move then is to go to mutual funds, which is where I went next. And I have since left those for a bunch of reasons. And they almost are similarly intertwined where most mutual funds are going to be actively managed. So instead of me picking the stocks, someone else is picking the stocks

(07:28):

And they underperform time and time again. But now I also have attached to that mutual fund additional fees fee drag against that performance, and I have tax drag against that performance if we're talking about a taxable account because they are very tax inefficient. So I went through that phase and where I ended up where I am now is using ETFs primarily outside of some unique situations, almost all ETFs to build portfolios with certain exposures. And the underlying investments are passive, but the portfolio is being managed in a thoughtful but passive way, if that makes sense. It

Hamilton Brandenburg (08:18):

Does. And I want to go back to something that I think you started to hit on and it really intrigued me, but we were talking about early on and doing this and trying to be a stock picker. I've got a couple stories I'm sure you do too, but have you ever seen circumstances where taking the approach of I want to be picking stocks versus just owning a basket of stuff and kind leaving it be, have you seen circumstances where that's gone well for clients or where that's gone poorly for clients? And what is the real life things that have actually changed your opinion on that when you're actually looking at a client's investment portfolio and trying to decide what do we keep and what do we get rid of

Rick Luchini (09:01):

A million times more on the negative side, which is why I've chosen that, and I just want to throw out, it's not necessary, but you and I do not have a conflict of interest. If tomorrow it made sense to buy individual stocks for our clients, we would absolutely do it in a heartbeat. We're not trying to, I don't sell packaged products, we don't have any deals with anybody. It's just is where the data is right now. And you and I are both always researching and open to if that changes tomorrow, I'm going to do it different. Sure. But right now, what I've seen, it's been a lot, but I have two that I'll do shortly that have just come up. Literally within the last handful of months, I signed a new client that came from a referral, and she's a very conservative person. She's adverse to volatility and she's saying things like, if I just got 5%, I'd be happy.

(10:08):

So what do they do? They listen to that and then instead of building her portfolio that matches where she should be, and then educating her on that, they give her what she wants, but instead of even doing it in a passive way, they're doing it. They're trying to prove their worth is the only reason I could come up with it is they're buying her individual bonds in preferred stocks that way. This is getting her the coupon, the interest rate that she wants and trying to, I have to be careful how I talk because you brought up a great idea of a jargon jar.

Hamilton Brandenburg (10:52):

I know where every time I was going to say at the beginning of this, we need to do the jargon jar.

Rick Luchini (10:56):

Yeah, we're going to do a jargon jar. It's going to be easier for you than me because you're so cool and casual. And I'm like,

Hamilton Brandenburg (11:04):

I just don't know very much. I'm not a jargon guy. I just don't know very much. So that's why I don't have very much jargon. There's literally nothing going on inside my brain.

Rick Luchini (11:11):

But what was happening was she was getting an interest rate, and traditionally things like bonds and preferred stocks in the vacuum are viewed as less risky or less volatile than stocks. That's it, right?

Hamilton Brandenburg (11:32):

Yeah.

Rick Luchini (11:33):

Inside of that portfolio, when I brought it over to start analyzing it, there was a ton of positions, a ton of positions. The nine headed monster, there was more than one that was over 50% from her original purchase. Sure. Okay. So she's getting a dividend and happy about that, but the actual value of the position's down more than 50%. This isn't a time when the market's going up. But in addition to that, she had one that was a preferred stock in First Republic Bank, and that was purchased in 2021. Okay. The coupon was four and a quarter percent, so she was getting four point a quarter percent. Everybody was super thrilled about that since that time that bank went bankrupt and her position is worth $0. Yep.

Hamilton Brandenburg (12:40):

Seen that happen.

Rick Luchini (12:42):

She lost not counting the opportunity cost of what she should have been earning in a different investment, just her actual investment in that alone was almost $20,000, which to her, I think to anybody, but to her for sure, it's a lot of money. She's never going to get it back. And that was not her coming to an advisor saying, I want to strike it big. I want to take chances. She's saying, I don't, I cannot risk to see this thing go down. I just want some interest. And it literally goes to zero, and this is what happens. Okay. It goes to zero. It's worth nothing. We're never going to get it back. And she didn't even know.

Hamilton Brandenburg (13:22):

Yeah. That's sad.

Rick Luchini (13:23):

She didn't even know. Okay. Yeah. Another one that I saw very recently is a guy who came from a, well-known money manager, has a hundred stocks, all good companies, literally nothing in a vacuum. Nothing really wrong with that portfolio. The stocks that they were choosing were good stocks, but it doesn't translate to the way he wants to use his money and live. Yeah.

Hamilton Brandenburg (13:54):

What's your process for turning it into income? How are you picking what to sell? All that stuff. If you don't have a process around it, then why do you?

Rick Luchini (14:01):

Yeah. And the timing of, and he realized that when he came to me, it was 2022 and the market was down, and his basket of previous year high performing stocks was down significantly more, ridiculously more because he had all the big players. He had all the big players that got crushed that year, and he had over exposure to things like Facebook that was down 55% and all these other things. And I just said, here's a great example of we can get away with it now at 57, but at 62, here's what the actual financial impact be on this. We can't just sit here and wait for them to come back because we're withdrawing from that portfolio. And there's a huge impact there. So I think how you're using the money when you're using the money matters too. But just that example alone is I said, look at how unsexy this portfolio is for my sample client here that I'm showing you. Look at how not impressive this is. Yeah. And I beat you by 17% this year and on a million and a half bucks, guess what? That's a lot of money.

Hamilton Brandenburg (15:26):

I think too, there's got to be something to be said for simplicity. So much of why our clients hire us, or at least why mine hire me, is they want their life to be easier. They want their life to be simpler. They want less complexity. So a couple stories I'll tell about this is I had a client once, still have him, great guy runs his own business, and he had all these really great investments that were spread out and all this good stuff, but he owned one individual stock, I think it was FedEx or UPS, and he would call me about every other day and be like, Hamilton, what's happening to my FedEx stock? And that was another light bulb moment for me where I was like, and I hadn't put the client into FedEx, but I let 'em keep it. But I was like, man, for some people, they could have a million dollar investment portfolio.

(16:22):

All they're going to look at is the one or two things of these companies that they know that they see when they're driving around, and that's going to introduce a lot of anxiety and a lot of decision paralysis that doesn't need to be there. We could still own some UPS, but in some kind of another fund that has that and other things in it too. And so I talked to the client about this and he agreed that he probably was not needing to continue holding that by itself. And I can tell you his anxiety around his investments has gone down significantly. And that's not just like we tell these stories. That's not a crazy client story. Financial advisors do this too. We approach investment decisions and we're bringing our own bias to the table whether or not we want to. So I don't have a hard and fast rule that says clients can't own individual stocks. I'll talk about some cases where we might actually do that here in a minute, but I've seen so many times where people will have a stock, like you said, that goes down like 50 or 60 or 70% while the market's going up by 20, and they're going like, well, Hamilton, that's a long-term investment. And I'm like, well, how long does it need to be? What are we waiting for?

Rick Luchini (17:34):

And what information do you have that that's going to come to fruition?

Hamilton Brandenburg (17:37):

Yeah, exactly. Well, eventually the US will federally legalize marijuana and then my Tilray stock will bounce back. And I'm like, well, maybe it will, maybe it won't, but what's the cost of you waiting? And also what I tend to see happen is especially when you're hyperfocused on investments, the will isn't done or the trust isn't funded or there's no tax strategy. So you only have so much capacity in your head for things to think about. And if you're hyperfocused on your investment strategy to where you're really involved with stock selection, I guarantee you, unless you're really, really, really good at delegating, something's not getting done. That needs to be done. Especially if a financial advisor's taking that approach, what are they not talking about? I only have so much FaceTime with my clients every year. If I call 'em every single month, they're going to just be like, please, dude, back off. But if I'm adding value in other areas of their life, then they're going to keep taking those phone calls. But me just constantly being like, Hey, we're swapping from this to that and we're moving this. That's not a value add that doesn't actually help people. Anyway, that's a tangent.

Rick Luchini (18:43):

No, no, I agree. And it's something that I'm seeing and it's the shift towards financial planning versus investment management. And it does not mean phone in the portfolio will have a whole nother episode about, I'll love to be super transparent. I'll even bring it up on the screen how I manage mine. I'd love to see how you do yours. That does not mean investments don't matter and phone it in. That means you can get it done and oftentimes outperform a stock only portfolio and then have systems in place to manage that and spend all your other time adding value on things like taxes and behavior and all this other stuff that comes into play that actually does add alpha rather than trying to pick the right stock at the right time. And I hate to tell you, unless you're in Congress, you're not going to get it right.

Hamilton Brandenburg (19:42):

That's right. That's right. Yeah. We're all going to follow certain individual congress people's trading habits.

Rick Luchini (19:47):

Right. I've heard that. Honestly, the information that you have is way late and you don't even know what you're looking at. So I think that what I've noticed is the perception is you're going to make more money doing that. And when you realize that that's not actually the case, then there's no reason to do it

Hamilton Brandenburg (20:14):

Unless your approach is just do the opposite of whatever Jim Cramer says to do. In which case you'll probably come up. Just kidding. This is not financial advice.

Rick Luchini (20:21):

No, no. Bringing up Jim Cramer is a good point because if you're a DI yer listening to this, here's something that I've seen time and time again. I mean often, especially for the new D iy or I've finally started having some money, and this could be, I've seen this a couple times with people in their late forties, early fifties, whatever it was, whether they started a business or their career finally took off. The kids are out of the house, college, everything's done. All of a sudden I'm making more money and I have money to invest for the first time. They want to do it the right way. They start researching. They're listening to Jim Cramer or CNBC or subscribing to Motley Fool or whatever the hell they're doing. They're getting these stock tips and what they're hearing is Buy this stock, right?

Hamilton Brandenburg (21:17):

Yeah.

Rick Luchini (21:18):

They buy it. The half hour episode's over next episode, they're talking about buying a different one. Nobody tells 'em when to fucking sell it. Okay? That's the problem. I've got these people that are like, I say, why do you hold this? Well, three years ago, the guy that told you on TV to buy that he's liquid by Friday, he sells everything by Friday, all he's trying to do is make a quarter of a percent on $20 million. You've been holding it for four years, and I have no idea

Hamilton Brandenburg (21:47):

Why. You bring up a really good point too. I think of those kinds of shows as just being, I call it financial porn. It's a show that's made to attract people for ad revenue because that's how they're going to make their money. And to me it's like, would you take marriage advice by watching a Nicholas Sparks movie or reading a romance novel? I hope not. So are you taking financial advice, something that's the same equivalent,

Rick Luchini (22:19):

Actually know what they're doing, right? Yeah. But they're not giving you the full picture. They're not giving you the full story. And that's the problem is I bought it because somebody told me it was a good buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy,

Hamilton Brandenburg (22:31):

Right? That's right.

Rick Luchini (22:32):

But then they never came back on and told me when to sell it.

Hamilton Brandenburg (22:35):

Now I will say, and that's a massive problem.

Hamilton Brandenburg (22:37):

So a lot of times if clients do, and I'll say this, I'm not against day trading. Same way. I'm not against gambling. Don't do it with your safe money. So I have some clients who are super into stocks and trading and I'll tell 'em like, look, that's totally fine. Take $50,000 and go do that. And there's things to consider. But Well, that's

Rick Luchini (22:59):

What I wanted to ask you next is how do you handle that? So this just came up with a new client that I was onboarding, and I'm curious what your take is on it. A new client or a prospect that comes in and says, Hey, listen, I like to own individual stocks, some version of that, or Here's the stocks that I own. I want to keep 'em, or I want to be involved. I want to pick stocks, things like that. The persona of that person. How do you handle that conversation and what's the outcome?

Hamilton Brandenburg (23:35):

So that's great. I think that there's a lot that kind of goes into that of sometimes that's what people really want to do and they know themselves and they know, no, this is what I want to do. Sometimes they just haven't been shown in a better way. I personally don't really draw a lot of hard and fast non-negotiable lines in the sand on just about anything. So I actually have clients who have individual stock. Now what I'll say is like, Hey, if you're expecting me to call you with stock tips and start buying and trading this and that, that's not what I do. I'm not going to be good at it. In fact, I actually had to tell a prospect this year, I think I'm going to be a bad fit for you. I kept going back to ETFs and this and I was like, I think this is a better person.

(24:20):

You should interview that person because that's what they like to do, and I'm not going to do well at now. What I will say is I've had a lot of clients who've retired from Costco and they have made a lot of money on Costco stock, and usually they're still holding RSUs, so restricted stock units or they've got some in their 401k and they want to keep some. And honestly, if you want to keep five or 10% in your employer stock that did really well for you, that's not the end of the world to me. As long as we have a reason for why we know how we're controlling it. A lot of times see people transfer money in who have you mentioned a hundred different stock positions. And so it's more of me kind of just saying, Hey, look, we have a good income process for turning on income, but it really doesn't involve all this weird stuff your other financial advisor was doing.

(25:07):

Are you okay with me slowly unwinding this and maybe finding a way to do this better for you? What got you here won't always get you there. And I think that's what it comes down to, is somebody willing to do better If they're presented with a compelling reason for why it's better for them, and if they are, then maybe we're keeping some of those stocks in there for a few years. Maybe we're just selling them off a little bit year after year. It doesn't need to be a hard and fast rule. Nope, you do it my way or you take the highway. But I also think if somebody's going through my planning process, they're going to probably not want to hire me at the end of it. If what they're looking for is the Wolf of Wall Street. Right? Sorry, not going to

Rick Luchini (25:49):

Happen. Yeah. I heard a couple things that I want to dig into. One was unwinding it slowly. So if you're listening to this and whether you did it yourself or whether you have an advisor, if you've got a portfolio of anything, this goes for anything. But especially if you have individual stocks and you're like, Hey, you know what, these guys, this makes sense to me. I'm going to look into this more. Don't just blindly let someone put it into whatever their packaged investment is without a total analysis. So for the example of the guy that came over that had the a hundred stocks, it took us 12 months to transition him from his current holdings to the target portfolio that I had built for him because of certain company, these are good companies. I'm not ditching them, they were oversold. So for me to sell him at these oversold loss numbers would have done, it would've done 15 years worth of damage.

(27:05):

So we put a plan in place to slowly and strategically when this stock hits this certain number, this is where I'm happy at it with this e ratio or something. And I would trade it and I would trade it, and I would shave it off and shave it off in over 12 months. We finally shifted it over. But had I just been like, Ooh, cool, new client, let's put 'em in my, because he was bought in into my investment philosophy and I actually had to pump the brakes. He's like, yeah, let's do it. I said, no, no.

(27:35):

You've got a lot of losses in here that we can capture in a fast period of time because this fox going to pop. And they did. And as that happened, then we started shifting it and selling it profit and moving it over. Another thing that you might have in your portfolio. This was easier because it was all IRA assets. But if you've got gains right, don't just start plowing hitting the sell button to move it over into the s and p 500 or something because you've got other ramifications by selling. So have an actual strategy to shift over to the way you want to be invested moving forward. Don't just do it all in one day because somebody said it was a good

Hamilton Brandenburg (28:17):

Idea. You should always know the tax ramifications of an investment decision. That's what it really comes down to, I think too. So talking about process, one thing that I've seen a lot is that people who have employer stock, and again, kind of the two employers have seen this the most with were Costco and Lockheed Martin. So people will get their employer stock in whatever, whether it's RSUs or for Lockheed, they call it the basic benefits program. And they'll hold it forever. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that necessarily. It might make a lot of sense and might have a good outcome, whatever. But when you have employer stock program, you have to look at it through the lens of like, if I could buy this today at this price, would I do that? So if you're getting RSUs that are vesting and your employer is giving you 200,000 or a hundred thousand dollars or $50,000 worth of stock that they're gifting to you as a bonus and you're holding that stock, you're not selling it immediately and putting it in cash.

(29:18):

What you're essentially saying is, if you gave me $50,000 bonus, I would take that and buy more shares of the stock. And if you wouldn't do that, then you shouldn't hold it in that stock. And if you are going to be a stock trader, you have to look at through the lens every day of my stock is down or up this much by me choosing to hold it. It's almost like saying, I would put new money into it right now at that level. And if you wouldn't, then I don't think you really have much of a process.

Rick Luchini (29:46):

And I think going back to the client that wants that, you're a little looser than me by saying that you have no non-negotiables. It kind of is for me. Now, to be fair, I will hold it. I do hold some, but it's for a reason. I have this that we can't or should not sell, and likely it's not indefinitely. It's for a certain period of time. I will hold that for them. I put a stop trade on it so that when I rebalance or do something in the portfolio, it doesn't touch that. But we have a plan to eventually get that out. If they say, no, no, in addition to that, I want you to buy Tesla, Amazon, this and that, but then also I know that they're going to tell me they want to sell it and then they want to buy it. We're not a good fit.

(30:43):

And you brought it up. It's okay if you feel differently than work with somebody that does that, but is actually an expert at it and spends time doing it. Not just somebody that's going to tell you what you want to hear. I don't want to do business with you because I know that that does not fit how I add value and what I do. And it just creates more headaches for me. So I will hold them. I do hold individual stocks and client accounts, but it's for strategic reasons with a plan to eventually get rid of them. I don't accept orders or trades or tips. And I say a similar thing though. I'm all about it. If that's you, that's your personality and you want to do that, here's how you open a Schwab account or an E-Trade account. And we will as part of your financial plan, I'm not just saying, go off on your own as part of your plan.

(31:41):

Here's how many dollars we've agreed to allocate towards that. Go buy the stuff. I don't care. Have a field dates your money, but it is not going to, your success or failure in picking those stocks is not going to dictate how much money you spend in retirement or how long you work. That's right. I'm going to take care of that part over here. And you can go play stock picker over there. But what I've noticed is the people that have done that at any level, whether it was themselves or having an advisor do it, the closer they get to retirement, the more they do not want to have anything to do with it. Because like you said before, it stresses them out.

Hamilton Brandenburg (32:18):

It's stressful and it's hard to have a process around it. And yeah, you're a hundred percent correct. It's not an easy thing to go into retirement with all these individual stocks and not really know what is my strategy for cash flow, how to turn it into income.

Hamilton Brandenburg (32:34):

And I think too, and I'll tell this to clients, look, at the end of the day, I'm supposed to do what's in your best interest, not what's in your good enough interest. So I think we do ourselves a disservice when we choose to work with clients who don't really buy into our advice and we try to be somebody else. Like you try to be a chameleon for somebody. I don't know if you watch the office, but Andy Bernard's all about personality, mirroring and sales, and it's funny, but you can't do that. Our job is to do what we think is best for our clients, not what we think is in their good enough interest. And so sometimes you do have to tell somebody, look, maybe you're looking for something that I just don't do, and I wanted to have the tough conversation with you that's honest, that I can't be that person and actually impress you because it's just not who I am. And I don't think that is going to work out for you long term.

Rick Luchini (33:28):

Yeah, that's important. And I don't have that problem, as you know. And some people that know me know I'm not a chameleon. I just tell you straight up not happening. Here's why. But I know what that feels like because I had to do that before I worked for a big company that had, I was responsible for clients that were on all ends of the spectrum and had different personalities, different viewpoints, different service needs. And so to do that well, and to not piss a bunch of people off, I had to be less of myself in certain situations to make that a good service experience for that end client. And when I left there, the main goal was to, I'm going to do this thing this way. I'm going to be myself. I'm going to talk the way I talk. I'm going to dress the way I dress.

(34:30):

And the people that want to work with that are going to come and the people that don't will self-select out. And I'm not going to ever go to work being anything other than myself from this point on. That's right. So if you say, I want you to pick stocks for me, Rick, I'm going to show you the door. That's just the way it is because I live that life before. And it's not being yourself, not being authentic and having to change not only is hard to be happy every day, but it's also super inefficient business wise.

Hamilton Brandenburg (35:03):

It is. And I think too, it all comes back to who do you and I serve? Right? I don't serve the board member of Lockheed Martin who has millions of dollars worth of a percentage of share in the company. That person, there are people for whom it does make sense to own individual stocks. Absolutely. You're the founder of a company's other

Rick Luchini (35:22):

Planning opportunities around borrowing against it for high net worth. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about middle class America, middle class American smash, the subscribe button. Hit follow if you're listening because we will be doing estate planning, which seems to be on Hamilton's mind. I want to do an actual how we manage portfolios, not just the don't pick stocks, but what to do. I think those are all coming up soon. And that's a good place to leave it, buddy. Alright

Hamilton Brandenburg (35:56):

Dude. Good talking to you. Thank you. Alright.

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